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| Posted on 2008-07-16 20:39:22 |
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| laaran |
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It could begin with "Sarkozy and Ireland".
Personnally, I don't care for Sarkozy or Ireland or European Union.
But I think that the reaction (of Sarkozy and of irish people) are a bit typical.
And when the mess is mess, and when the feelings are nasty, why hide them ?
I always heard that big countries are "robbing" the freedom of small countries in Europe.
For languages, for example, I consider that some small countries refuse to change.
In France, we had to unite the language. And the price was higher for some areas. Norway, Sweden and Denmark refuse to do it. It could be the best way to protect and to develop their culture and language. But they refuse.
Sometimes, when small countries don't find a solution, they just accuse big countries or European Union.
We know it. We do the same, we accuse European Union or the USA..
I think that some problems are real problems. But sometimes, these problems are local problems. And big countries are not responsible.
What is the problem with Ireland ?
Why is "voting again" such a big problem ? At least, Sarkozy gives you this right (the french population refused the first treaty, and could never vote again ; the government refused, and just asked for the opinion of the parliament).
Sarkozy gives you more than to french population. Is it not enough for you ?
Or is it easier to accuse a big country and european union ?
Or is the truth "Ireland is rich now, much richer than 20 years ago, and has strong links with the USA, and Europe is poor and scaring to the rich irish people".
Maybe it is the truth. Why not just tell it ? You can stay away from European Union. Switzerland does. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-07-17 08:22:32 |
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| laaran |
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Ah and another point.
As for many people, there is a Dell laptop in a my family (no, not mine).
And as the quality is lower than other brands (for example, lower than the quality of Toshiba ; yes, mine is a Toshiba :) ), there is a problem with it.
Maybe you could offer free repair for every Dell laptop during 1 month ? I am sure that would help.
If we feel that you don't care just for money...
And if we feel that you try to offer a real quality for the price. Yes, it was cheaper, but imagine. Such a waste for the planet. All these laptops going to the bin :( A laptop should work for 15 years or more (if people use it mainly at home) or 5 years (if people move a lot).
Dell's laptop, it is rather 6 years, and 2 years.
Imagine the waste. No not imagine. Calculate the waste, I am sure you can get exact numbers.
Poor planet, and that also creates a nasty feeling in the heart of Dell's client. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-07-22 02:22:32 |
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| Small-Talker |
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What is the problem with Ireland ?
Why is "voting again" such a big problem ? At least, Sarkozy gives you this right (the french population refused the first treaty, and could never vote again ; the government refused, and just asked for the opinion of the parliament).
Sarkozy gives you more than to french population. Is it not enough for you ? |
If any changes are made to the Irish constitution by legislature drawn by the Dáil and Seanad, or if any treaties are drawn up by the EU which in any way affect the existing Irish constitution, the government of Ireland has a constitutional obligation to hold a referendum - not because Sarkozy "gives us this right".
Although I personally don't see the harm in having another referendum. To be honest, the only reason a whole lot of people voted 'No' was that they didn't understand the bloody thing. In fact, no one did. I recall government ministers stating they couldn't even finish reading it. And the "informational booklets" delivered to every house in the country didn't help matters. It simply referred to amendments of articles and sub-sections of other articles without even mentioning the original articles or the changes which were to be made.
All I understood - from my own research - was that Ireland's voting capacity and the voting capacity of every "smaller" country in the EU would be greatly diminished, while the voting capacity of Germany would be doubled, as would the French, and Britain would get a big increase too. The 'Yes' side campaigned on the basis that the Lisbon treaty would "make for smoother running of the EU" - and while that was true, it was only true in the sense that Germany, France and Britain would be able to streamline any bullshit they wanted into power with almost immediate affect without virtually any opposition.
Also, Ireland would've been without an EU commissioner for 5 out of every 15 years. And it meant the EU would be completely unaccountable for all its expenditure. With all this talk of a "Global recession", I hardly think it would be appropriate for all these bureaucratic bullshitters to be able to put their entire scumbag families in their offices, free to spend as many hundreds of thousands of euro a year as they want.
I think perhaps they should have another referendum. But this time, explain all of this to people, instead of referring to amendments to sub-sections of articles that you have to go looking up yourself. Maybe next time, we'll get a definite 'No'?
Democracy almost never works.
But it did this time.
And the entire EU is up in arms about it.
Go figure. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-07-22 08:33:52 |
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| laaran |
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the government of Ireland has a constitutional obligation to hold a referendum - not because Sarkozy "gives us this right".
Do you think that your constitution can't be changed ? Sarkozy can't, but the leaders of your country could.
Are all your actual leaders completely honest ?
To me, they seem to care much for money from the USA ; and little to protect your rare language.
To be honest, the only reason a whole lot of people voted 'No' was that they didn't understand the bloody thing. In fact, no one did.
Do you think the text is so complicated ?
Maybe I am french, so maybe that helps to read some parts. We are a bit used to these "complicated sentences" to tell simple things.
All I understood - from my own research - was that Ireland's voting capacity and the voting capacity of every "smaller" country in the EU would be greatly diminished, while the voting capacity of Germany would be doubled, as would the French, and Britain would get a big increase too.
Unfortunately, the logic of "one person, one vote" goes this way.
(for population), Germany is really much bigger than Ireland. And even than France or Britain.
Is it stupid ? Maybe.
But which other logic do you propose ?
Why give special rights to people of small countries (I mean more votes for one person of these countries ?) ?
Why not more rights for small and rare languages ?
Why not more rights for small and rare religions ?
Why not more rights for small and rare professions ?
Actually, small countries propose more nationalism. I think it is the word.
And it meant the EU would be completely unaccountable for all its expenditure. With all this talk of a "Global recession", I hardly think it would be appropriate for all these bureaucratic bullshitters to be able to put their entire scumbag families in their offices, free to spend as many hundreds of thousands of euro a year as they want.
I agree. And in fact, some do it already.
The European Central Bank is not controlled. Hum.
No, some people in this bank "plays" to help the US-dollar.
Corruption ? Ideology ?
I think perhaps they should have another referendum. But this time, explain all of this to people, instead of referring to amendments to sub-sections of articles that you have to go looking up yourself. Maybe next time, we'll get a definite 'No'?
Yes.
In fact, the problem is not for voting "no" to this text.
The problem is :
- some irish people understand the text pretty well. But they don't tell critics openly. Why not tell the critics openly ? Why not "attack" this bad text ?
We know the story of this text. It was created by a team of old people, including some old french people. When France and Netherlands votes no the first time, 2/3 of the text was removed, and they kept 1/3, and really not the best part.
- don't attack it just with nationalist ideology. If minorities have more rights (this is what you propose, when you refuse the "high numbers of vote of France, Germany, England), why just national minorities ? |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-07-23 14:29:00 |
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ireland will be forced to hold referendum's until they do vote yes. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-07-24 11:17:24 |
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| laaran |
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Ah ?
Is it an order ?
Ok, I contact french army, they will prepare planes for Ireland.
Or we may also use the secret groups. Those who got 28 kilogs of Semtex from the french governement for free.
We will destroy all the planes of Ryanair.
I am sorry for irish people, but it is better than sending french troops to Afghanistan.
And for the planes, we will destroy them in the night. No dead. It is better than selling the Semtex to terrorists.
If you have a new order, please tell me.
We will operate in the night of august, from the 2nd to the 3rd.
Hurry up if you change your mind.
(this forum will have problems with US security forces ; I use the words terrorists and dead and planes and Semtex in the same message :( ) |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-07-25 01:16:59 |
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| laaran |
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Why shall we care for languages ?
Let's compare languages
First version
Second version
And the original one
Which is really the most pretty ? And the less pretty ? |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-07-25 16:41:48 |
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| Small-Talker |
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Do you think that your constitution can't be changed ? Sarkozy can't, but the leaders of your country could.
Are all your actual leaders completely honest ?
To me, they seem to care much for money from the USA ; and little to protect your rare language. |
I doubt they could modify the constitution to that extent. There'd be no solid basis for doing so, other than for the benefit of the Lisbon treaty. Thankfully, the media isn't as fucked up here as it is elsewhere. They'd see right through such a stunt. Plus, Fianna Fail doesn't have that big of a majority in the Dail - they wouldn't even get half of their own party to back such a proposal, yet alone Fine Gael, Labour, Sinn Fein, the independents, etc. The joys of the multi-party establishment.
Oh ... and in order for them to change the constitution so a referendum wouldn't need to be held for every modification, they'd first need to hold a referendum to allow them to modify the constitution without future referendums. 
I can't really speak much for the Irish language. It was my least favourite subject in school, but they still force it on every single citizen of the country without option. I guess that's something "to protect the (not so) rare language."
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Unfortunately, the logic of "one person, one vote" goes this way.
(for population), Germany is really much bigger than Ireland. And even than France or Britain.
Is it stupid ? Maybe.
But which other logic do you propose ?
Why give special rights to people of small countries (I mean more votes for one person of these countries ?) ?
Why not more rights for small and rare languages ?
Why not more rights for small and rare religions ?
Why not more rights for small and rare professions ?
Actually, small countries propose more nationalism. I think it is the word. |
I think it should run more on a 'one country, one vote' basis. It would be the fairest way of dealing with issues. Even though there's a hell of a lot more people in Germany than there is in a place like Malta, it's still the one government that's being represented. And, being completely honest, I don't like the thought of America's arse-buddies being the guys with the most power. Gordon Brown, Sarkozy and that German hag could get us all into some serious shit if McCain got into power. And there's something about Obama that I find creepy. I think he could be just as bad.
This probably stems from my belief that most people are stupid. They don't know what they want - and when they do, they rarely have a clue how the fuck to go about doing it. Democracy could potentially work, but definitely not in its current state. Looking at Ireland, senior ministers move from one department to another to another year after year. And I'm thinking: how the fuck can these people know all there needs to be known about health, environment, architecture, defence, etc. and run that part of the country effectively? They can't. It's because of this idiocy that health systems are in chaos and we're all generally being sodomised on a daily basis. And it's the same crap going on all over the world. That's why we need more dictatorships. We need more smart people in power - people who can stand back, look at all this crap and deal with it. The human race will be extinct in a hundred years if it keeps going this way. But I digress ... |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-07-25 19:08:49 |
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| laaran |
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they'd first need to hold a referendum to allow them to modify the constitution without future referendums
Ah ok, you know better than I do.
I think it should run more on a 'one country, one vote' basis. It would be the fairest way of dealing with issues.
Hum.
At least, it is the most simple one.
It is exactly the difference between a treaty and between building an Europe Union.
A treaty is a treaty. One country is one country and once voice.
An Union, that means we transfer (to the union) some rules of each country. Including the democratic system (which is actually the only system in all european countries).
The text, they call it a treaty. But it is a treaty to create an Union. Strange.
That is a real question. Do we want treaties and agreements (UK is known for always proposing that), or an Union ?
Personnally, I now prefer the first one.
It is not ideology. For ideology (or hopes), I rather support and wish an Union.
But reality is reality. Today, the Union exists for some topics, and I share your point of view, the results are rather under average. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2008-09-17 00:13:01 |
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| Vrak |
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Hi, I haven't come to this forum in a long time. I'm from Ireland and I voted No on this treaty. The funny thing is as Mishto said Ireland will be forced to hold referendum's until they do vote yes. Its probably true.
I see that Small-Talker guy is still full of s*it. He's one of those guys who has the answer for everything. Mr. Smarty pants know it all. We have got a lot of people like him in Dublin. Just to give you fair warning if you're thinking of planning a trip to Ireland be prepared for these know it all types. On the other hand there are also nice friendly people too. |
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