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| Posted on 2006-07-10 15:18:09 |
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| laaran |
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I have much to tell now...
First I am happy, Paris was quiet.
Second point, I am sorry for the team (but I don't care for French fans). The players have all my respect (except Zidane, I will explain). Sport is sport. There can be only one winner.
Last point, Zidane. I don't like him. Because he has 4 children.
He comes from Algeria. Big families are a very big problem in Algeria. He is very famous, and he should be an example.
And concerning his attitude ? What can I say about it ? It is not my problem at all. The Italian player should be honest and tell loudly what he said, then we could judge. |
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| Posted on 2006-07-10 19:21:35 |
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For fuck sake Laaran, you've just dropped a mile in my estimation. You don't like him because he has 4 children?? It's none of your business how many children he has!!
I received an email this afternoon claiming what was said last night... who know's if it's true or not...
Here is a quote of what Matterazi is supposed to have said to Zidane last night to make him so mad...
"I Hope Jean suffered"
To put it in context:
Jean Varraud is Zidane's first trainer and Zidane considers him as his
second father.
He died just before World Cup started from a long cancer battle. |
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| Posted on 2006-07-10 23:59:48 |
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| mambo23 |
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Rise and shine, Italy! :D |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 00:17:50 |
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| TinaSeattle |
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Forza Italia!!!  |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-07-11 01:28:59 |
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| laaran |
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Yes, first I forgot, congratulations to Italy.
Fjallrav, the number of children is my concern as much as the rest of his life. Either I don't care for him at all, and then French government doesn't give him money for the victory (the government gives money for soccer and for olympics games - and a lot more for soccer - why not for other sports), either I make my opinion with what matters to me. |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 02:56:15 |
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| Small-Talker |
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Some lip-reading experts in Italy have been studying the footage of that incident. There is a general consensus that the words said were "You and your mother should die a painful death". |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 12:22:19 |
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either I make my opinion with what matters to me. |
Fair enough Laaran, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I don't think that you can have such (dare I say) hatred for someone because he has four kids, whom he can look after and I'm sure, rather well. You cant blame him because your government gives funding to soccer. Soccer along with rugby is the largest sport in your country. So this funding will be for small community based clubs and teams as well as the national side. Do you have a problem with other players? How about the national rugby team? Any problems there? Have they too many kids??
I think there's a more underlying problem you have with him. Would you like to share that with us??...
Fj |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 14:30:33 |
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Current proposals from lip readers about Materazzi's insult to Zidane: called him a terrorist, called his sister a whore, told him his family would suffer a nasty death, told him to fuck off.
It's so sad Zidane couldn't last 10 more minutes and end his career with the dignity he deserves. It also takes the shine off Italy's achievement - I think they were the best team of the tournament overall but I wish they'd won with a later goal instead of penalties - that's not such a clear-cut victory, despite their excellent penalty takers.
Very nice World Cup, congrats to the Germans, the attacking football dried up towards the end of the tournament but the final outcome was fair. The Germans won the World Cup when it was in Italy so now Italy have returned the compliment! |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 18:31:54 |
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It is a pity he couldn't last. But to be honest, if someone said anything like that to me... forget his chest, I'd have left his nose around his ears!! We all remember what Zizou has done but lets not forget what provoked him into doing it in the first place. Football is a great game, the world cup is a great tournament and it is not a place for any racism or what ever. Did Zizou not make such a statement just before the WC?? Did the Spanish not make "monkey" sounds towards the French national team at some stage? Is this acceptable? I THINK NOT!!!
Anyway, like Karl (Hey, I'm Karl) said, a Big thanks to the German people for organising a great month of football and being great hosts. Also big thanks to the 32 nations who took park. I going to have withdrawal symptoms for the rest of the summer. Back to crap TV. I hope us Irish will see you all in South Africa in 2010!!
Fj (K) |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 18:50:34 |
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Zidane's message reads
(before final game),
"There is no place for racism. It is impossible to love this sport, to play it, or to support a team and be racist or xenophobic at the same time. The values conveyed by football are the exact opposite of racism. Because racism promotes exclusion and hate. Football, in contrast, brings people together to share a common pleasure. Every four years we experience a unique time in which people congregate together, take part together and celebrate together. Racists are not invited." |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 19:09:46 |
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| laaran |
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I don't think that you can have such (dare I say) hatred for someone because he has four kids, whom he can look after and I'm sure
Hatred is a little strong.
People in France don't judge only the player. They judge the attitude : he looks so peaceful and generous for several associations including handicaped children.
Thank you very much. We had that with Catholic Church. Charity.
If he really cares for one problem, the biggest one today is overpopulation not handicaped children. Or war (and he says nothing about the France selling weapons). Or hunger, which is linked to wars and overpopulation.
You cant blame him because your government gives funding to soccer.
No, the goverment gives money directly to the player. It is a "reward".
I think Chirac invented that. Nobody can stop Chirac, when he wants to write his name somewhere. |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 21:01:45 |
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Ok, "Hatred" is a little strong and I don't know the full details of the whole situation in France. The guy happens to be a very talented soccer player, probably one of the best ever. I don't think he signed up to be a "role model" but we as a society expect "famous" people to act in a certain way and speak out for or against various issues. Is this right? Can they as private individuals not have the right to lead their own lives as they so choose?
If, as you say, Chirac gives money directly to him, I agree that this is complete shit. Politicians will always want to be associated with the "hip" so they can appeal to the younger generations. Just look at Tony Blair inviting "rock" stars such as Noel Gallagher et al to Downing Street. All to look COOL and get a few extra votes. It makes me sick. I think it would be better to concentrate on important ploicy making rather than making friends with the rich and famous.
Anyway, fair enough, I agree with some of your points but I strongly believe in the privacy of the individual and the right to how they see fit to live their lives.
Ok, we've moved away from the topic of this thread...
Fj |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 22:44:16 |
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| doffen. |
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Italy deserved it Cannavaro and Grosso were amazing! |
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| Posted on 2006-07-11 23:58:08 |
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| LORDHUMONGOUS |
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In Zidanes defense, a person can only take so much abuse. Given the situation, the stress and what was said, I think he reacted like anyone else would. We don't know what was said so we can't judge. How would you have reacted? You weren't there. It's seems everyone is blaming him now. That's sad. |
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| Posted on 2006-07-12 10:38:21 |
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| Emilianino |
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Well... A bit of promotion for my little big city is more than welcome now, after somebody said something good about Grosso...:
He's from Pescara, a very nice modern city on the Adriatic Sea's cost!
Very cheap to fly into from London Stansted and Frankfurt!
We've got another few champions, Jarno Trulli (formula one driver) amongst others!
And Emilianino, the first professional photographer who doesn't ask for money after shooting lovely good photobooks...
:o |
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| Posted on 2006-07-12 11:14:47 |
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Well... A bit of promotion for my little big city is more than welcome now, after somebody said something good about Grosso...:
:o |
Hey Emilianino, do you work for your local tourist office?? 
I can guess it must be very beautiful.
Fj |
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| Posted on 2006-07-12 11:30:07 |
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| Emilianino |
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No!
I also used to promote Ryanair flights!! Without being payed and without being irish!!
But, in this particular case, I just wanna make sure that foreign tourists will be aware of the existence of other nice and cheaper places all over Italy, without just going blinded to Toscana... (aka "new Englanda" probably!!)
:D |
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| Posted on 2006-07-12 11:34:23 |
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Zidane speaks! Tonight on Canal+ in France - expect to read about it tomorrow.
I don't blame him, I just regret he didn't last just a little bit more, after a lifetime of abuse. He's always managed well with the enormous pressure of carrying the hopes of a nation, plus being the added symbol of immigrant integration. But he's still a hero and the outstanding player of his generations. |
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| Posted on 2006-07-12 12:48:55 |
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I don't blame him, I just regret he didn't last just a little bit more, after a lifetime of abuse. He's always managed well with the enormous pressure of carrying the hopes of a nation, plus being the added symbol of immigrant integration. But he's still a hero and the outstanding player of his generations. |
Well said!! 
Fj |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-07-12 13:08:37 |
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| laaran |
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plus being the added symbol of immigrant integration
This is the point.
Having 4 children is not a sign of integration.
Marrying with another stranger (his wife is coming from South Spain) is not a sign of integration.
We have little symbols of integration, because integration failed.
We don't need fake symbols.
Rich people (even dictators) are always welcome in France, including rich foreigners (even dictators). "hospitality".
He's always managed well with the enormous pressure of carrying the hopes of a nation
Of many French soccer fans. Is that enough to call that a nation ?
the outstanding player of his generations.
OK.
That carries no national flag. |
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| Posted on 2006-07-12 14:42:35 |
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Oh My God!! He married a woman from Southern Spain!! What the fuk?? What was he thinking?????... Jesus Christ, you're not making any sense. So you reckon he doesn't integrate at all? I would find that hard to believe.
I bet if he married a French woman, you'd argue that he was taking local women from French men! Ok, what would you think if he married a French woman and had 8 kids?
Either you're level of English isn't as good as I thought it is or you're making points with which there's no point arguing because you're coming across very right wing!! |
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| Posted on 2006-07-12 15:54:55 |
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[quote=laaran]plus being the added symbol of immigrant integration
This is the point.
Having 4 children is not a sign of integration.
Marrying with another stranger (his wife is coming from South Spain) is not a sign of integration.
We have little symbols of integration, because integration failed.
We don't need fake symbols.
Rich people (even dictators) are always welcome in France, including rich foreigners (even dictators). "hospitality".
quote]
Ok Laaran, here's a scenario which could happen and I want your views...
I'm moving to Stockholm in a little over two weeks. What if when I get there, I meet someone (who is not Swedish), fall in love with them and we have four kids... what would you think? I would still be working, I would still pay taxes etc etc...
How about any Swedish people on the forum... Mags? Moonbeams? Anna_the_Wonder? Would you have a problem with this or is it just Laaran?
Fj |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-07-12 15:59:42 |
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| laaran |
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what would you think? I would still be working, I would still pay taxes etc etc...
This is not integration.
Money does not change people.
It is strange.
Zidane is a great soccer player. OK.
Why should he be a political symbol ?
You are playing the game of Chirac. Politic and sport are two different things.
I bet if he married a French woman, you'd argue that he was taking local women from French men!
I never wrote that.
In this case, my only question is how they live together. If he accepts part of her culture, and she accepts another part from his culture, that just looks normal.
If he forces her to adapt all muslim culture, I would dislike it.
If she forces him to forget all his own culture, I would dislike it too.
Ok, what would you think if he married a French woman and had 8 kids?
Rabbits.
French man + French woman + 8 children : also rabbits.
Let's kill and eat rabbits. |
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| Posted on 2006-07-12 16:50:57 |
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I KNOW politics and sport are two different things. You're the one going one about a sportsman with four kids. YOU'RE the person trying to mix the two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about what he does on a soccer pitch and f*k everything thing else.
However, I do agree that one culture should not be forced on another but if the other person is willing to adopt another culture, then that is their decision and no one elses.
Regarding marrying a "French woman", you said he married a "stranger" (Spanish) and this gives the impression that you have a problem with foreign people in France. Am I wrong? It is possible to integrate into another country while retaining a sense of identity from your own culture.
F*k this, I'm tired of this thread. I'm finished with it. I could go on until I'm blue in the face. I might as well be headbutting a wall... or an Italian
Fj |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-07-12 18:46:48 |
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| laaran |
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YOU'RE the person trying to mix the two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then put away national flags from your soccer team.
I played soccer team several time in my life, without national flag.
And this is completely artificial. These teams do not train enough.
There is no national soccer team and you know it.
This world championship has no meaning, except developping national feelings.
In Europe, all teams are linked to cities. We may like it or not, this is a reality.
It is possible to integrate into another country while retaining a sense of identity from your own culture.
Yes.
I write a list of of non-integration points.
Write one integration point. Just one.
What does Zidane share with French culture ? Please tell one point.
And last point.
You are Irish. That means you suffered little from WWII, but you saw the waste.
The least you could do is to criticize our national feelings, and warn us. To tell us where we failed.
You saw cancer. You were lucky, it spared you. When it grows again, you don't warn us, you don't help us. |
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