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| Posted on 2006-09-18 20:42:15 |
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Strange that you say we are only using diplomacy because force alone didnt work for iraq, strange that we are now trying diplomacy, that the liberals now say we must take action and not diplomacy. Which way do you want it? Diplomacy or force, please make up your minds.
-------i didn't say that...i say they aren't the only two options. It's not a do nothing and talk or do something and fight ONLY option.
Might I remind people that Iraq had 12 years to comply to UN resolutions but thumbed its nose at all the time, shot at US and British planes everyday, attempted to assasinate President Bush when he was going to Kuwait, Sent 25,000 for every successful suicide bomber in Iraq.
--------12 years to get rid of the WMD that he said they didn't have and that after an invasion of the country we couldn't find and finally admitted that the intelligence must have been faulty?
Allowed Zarkawi to set up training camps in iraq, and czech intelligence still stands by that mohammed atta met up with iraqi diplomats before 9/11.
-----you're making claims that even most of the administration admits is false.
Invading Iraq was a good move, rather than two maniacal dictators presiding over oil reserves, there is only 1.
----two.
Im sre you will try and bat down every point i have in here, but I didnt feel like just letting you depart with your "points" and have people consider them gospel[/quote]
You're not doing such a good job or rebutting them though. Give it another go. Try some honesty and maybe some research before you do though. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-09-18 20:52:59 |
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| Realphilip747 |
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Where do u get 2?
Hussien is gone
Youre wrong about the weapons, he had them, his burden was to tell us how the weapons were destroyed who destroyed them, and where they buried them. he never gave us that paperwork for that. Time and time again he stopped inspectors from going into buildings to be inspected. When we found banned rockets, the iraqi's said oops we didnt know they were there, and only then they started destroying the rockets in the days before the invasion.
Its amazing that liberals hatred for Bush will make them believe the words of a murdering dictator like Hussein rather than the US and its intelligence and France's intelligence, German Intelligence, Hans Blix (UN inspector) Israeli Intelligence.
We have as bac stated found weapons there, just not huge stockpiles, and degraded weapons, like he said most likely as people have whispered they were shipped to Syria with the help of the Russians.
The administratiom has said that they havent found a connection between Hussen and 9/11, but have said taht he does have a relationship with Al Queda. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-18 21:45:36 |
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i got two cuz i was making a joke.
If i'm wrong...where are they? And your story reads as fairy tale dreamed up to explain the fact that they aren't there. How long will you hold onto it....even the govt. you're supporting admits the failure.
"(CBS) When no weapons of mass destruction surfaced in Iraq, President Bush insisted that all those WMD claims before the war were the result of faulty intelligence. But a former top CIA official, Tyler Drumheller — a 26-year veteran of the agency — has decided to do something CIA officials at his level almost never do: Speak out.
He tells correspondent Ed Bradley the real failure was not in the intelligence community but in the White House. He says he saw how the Bush administration, time and again, welcomed intelligence that fit the president's determination to go to war and turned a blind eye to intelligence that did not. "
----seriously....deal with reality. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-09-19 03:42:42 |
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| Realphilip747 |
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why dont u deal with reality, and your blind Bush and America, by the replies you have made, it sounds like you trust Sadams word over Our's and you think that Osama's confession sounds fishy?
Even the liberals agree with Osama admitting his guit in the 9/11 attacks.
Wait let me get this straight, you say the administration is a bunch of liars, yet you then will use the words of an ex-CIA agent and believe that? What's up with that? They are spies remember and if you dont trust the non-spies what makes you believe in the word of people who are trained to lie? |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-09-19 05:01:44 |
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| Quetzal |
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Hi Karl,
Universal rights is a very Judeo-Christian ideal, nice to see you supporting it :) |
you're wrong, it's typicaly a philophical greks democratic ways.. if it was a christian way there a god somewhere..
why it's greek; because these law, comes from human for human, and it's not the laws of gods for human.. that why these laws are good for us instead of of the gods laws which not really care about human beings...
with gods and lords you can only put your two knees on the ground and be happy that these tyran do not want to have fun with your life.. that why so many pray, there so scared of gods, so scared of the lord..
human right is an appeal to everyman to accept thesame limitation of freedom for themselve that anyone will have.. to get the sameright than anyone.. sur with nieztche this is the power of the "little" on the strongs, the power strangly, of men on God and lords.. the power of humanity on any tyrans(medivals warlords, bishops, popes, and God).. that why french revolutionar, have proclaim it in 1789
not to be nice with christians, who were during the revolution a forbiden religion. to powerfull and too dangerous for people, they were living on people by their false spiritual autorities.
and when you'll undestand that god is a tyran who plays with people, you'll know what god really is.. and you pray, and love it.. look at the world without human right.. this is the land of Gods... injustice and wars.. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-09-19 06:03:08 |
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| Shobar |
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| well one cannot change the minds of brutal people overnight, but atleast they have some rights restored and are progressing that way, now maybe if they did away with islamic laws in that country they would enjoy total rights. |
Total rights, eh? Explain to me what do you mean by TOTAL? What’s wrong with Islamic laws? you seems know much about it, eh?
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| Osama confessed on video tape that he did it, but I guess it mustve been doctored would be the answer they wouldve given (much as shobar claims everything i say or hear is distorted by the western media. Then what would you do then. Strange that on one hand you point out and say that women's rights have not been restored as of yet, yet you seem to think if we handed them proof they would actually comply. Thisis a regime that beat women if their ankles showed. A regime that beheaded Gays, and muslims who converted to Christianity and you seem to think they can be reasoned with. |
Ow sure…brutal people, eh? You know nothing about them except what your bias media told you….poor you. Ow…..you would say this kinda pos is typical me, eh? It’s typical you anyway to claim them as nasty as brutal as possible so you would have solid ground to oppress them and not loosing your face by the brutality that you’ve done either…typical…typical.  |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 11:31:59 |
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No, Shobar, Europeans are not better than others - the ECHR is just an example of putting the UN declaration into legal force. It's not difficult for HRW and Amnesty to record plenty of European violations - a recent example is the collusion with extraordinary renditions.
And yes, the concept of "civilisation" does evolve over time, but the UN is probably the best forum to define what "universal" human rights are. Any action to reach this ideal is a step in the right direction, however rare those actions are, even in countries that call themselves civilised. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 11:46:16 |
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Bac, instead of thousands of soldiers getting stuck in Iraq, is it truly silly to imagine sending 100 000 US aid workers across the world and with a year's budget of military spending, the US could almost single-handedly deliver on most of the Millennium Development Goals?
Can you imagine the example and respect your country could inspire across the world? How better to project your values of freedom by showing all the good your freedom can bring? It's just not happening at the moment, is it?
But it not just the USA who has this problem, it's pretty much all of the developed world, happily rich on the world's labour and production, and unable to get off the consumption train. In the meantime, we protect our national interests by military or diplomatic force, trying to hide our hypocrisy behind words of freedom. That's why nutters like Bin Laden can drum up support in the name of resistance. If we could truly bring freedom to the oppressed of the world, Bin Laden would disappear in a puff of irrelevance. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 11:49:18 |
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Wow, it's been a while since I last read any attempt to defend the WMD reason for the Iraq war, even from delusionists like Blair... |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 12:31:51 |
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| xxkellyxx |
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But it not just the USA who has this problem, it's pretty much all of the developed world, happily rich on the world's labour and production, and unable to get off the consumption train. In the meantime, we protect our national interests by military or diplomatic force, trying to hide our hypocrisy behind words of freedom. That's why nutters like Bin Laden can drum up support in the name of resistance. If we could truly bring freedom to the oppressed of the world, Bin Laden would disappear in a puff of irrelevance. |
Yep, and what's new? We seem to be stuck in a neverending cycle, with the maniac terrorists only moderately more insane and hungry for glory than those ruling the world. The obscene pursuit of profit and power will always prevail, apparently, whichever side of the fence you happen to be sitting on. It depresses me to think about it these days. Whereas once I had enthusiasm for protests and marches, now I truly can't see anything is ever going to change. People will still be starving to death, murdering each other and living under the control of governments who thinly veil their own political and economical interests behind the flag of justice or bravery. Well, until the climate change kills us all anyway.
I'm off to eat doritos.... |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 12:48:23 |
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| Shobar |
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No, Shobar, Europeans are not better than others - the ECHR is just an example of putting the UN declaration into legal force. It's not difficult for HRW and Amnesty to record plenty of European violations - a recent example is the collusion with extraordinary renditions.
And yes, the concept of "civilisation" does evolve over time, but the UN is probably the best forum to define what "universal" human rights are. Any action to reach this ideal is a step in the right direction, however rare those actions are, even in countries that call themselves civilised. |
Karlf, I like your rationality indeed 
There are some people who are so much crazy being labeled as civilized and claim the other side is just brutal and barbaric people while they are just doing the same brutal and barbaric and sometimes even worst.
Peace to you. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 12:57:24 |
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| Shobar |
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| Wow, it's been a while since I last read any attempt to defend the WMD reason for the Iraq war, even from delusionists like Blair... |
It's funny though, I thought Bush will be the last person who admit that there are no WMDs in Iraq|
| Bush: "Iraq did not have the weapons that our intelligence believed were there" |
but obviously there are people who not update their knowledge  |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 15:30:51 |
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why dont u deal with reality, and your blind Bush and America, by the replies you have made, it sounds like you trust Sadams word over Our's and you think that Osama's confession sounds fishy?
Even the liberals agree with Osama admitting his guit in the 9/11 attacks.
Wait let me get this straight, you say the administration is a bunch of liars, yet you then will use the words of an ex-CIA agent and believe that? What's up with that? They are spies remember and if you dont trust the non-spies what makes you believe in the word of people who are trained to lie? |
Well judging on what we know now....who was right?
i didn't say they were liars i said they were wrong. But it's true.....govt's lie. ours is no different. I trust individuals more than i trust party lines. That's pretty clever of you to deflect the attention off your misinformed story.
Nobody is denying Osama did it...we're talking about the sequence of events in relation to the taliban having the option to prevent an invasion of afghanistan rhetoric you stated. that's not really true if you look at the details.....details meaning.....they asked for proof before just giving up a guest of their country (seems reasonable to me).
and yes you got me straight that an ex-CIA agent whom i have no knowledge of his lying, being two faced, intentionally misleading people holds more weight with me than someone including a president and cabinet officials that do all of the above. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 16:49:53 |
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Shobar, I pray at the altar of Reason... I have faith it will lead us all to peace. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 16:58:05 |
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Incidentally, an altar to Reason would look something like this:
http://www.azurs.net/photoblog...tra.html
It's an "Altar of the Nation", the last remaining one of thousands erected during the French Revolution, and conmemorates the conquests of the French people, with a shining sun/eye to symbolise intellectual knowledge and the Enlightenment. Now it's just somewhere my kids can climb on and jump off... |
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| Posted on 2006-09-19 17:05:59 |
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Of we mustn't forget the lessons of history and that the French Revolution led to a reign of terror and then an emperor... |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-09-19 20:14:48 |
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| Realphilip747 |
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Quetzal
The idea of universal rights did not come from people
The concept of people being equal and deserving of freedom came from the Judeo-Christian God.
You seem to think that one should put their trust in human beings, when that has been proven over and over to be foolish. Man is inherently sinful and evil. Look at the wars of the world? Started over the love of power and money. Look at the communist countries over history, Nothing but the death of millions upon millions came from that with "re-education" and their wars.
The reason why Christians would want others to be free, is because of what they have been taught by God, its been stitched into their fibre. Why do you think the leading groups to cry out against Darfur have been the Evangelical Church and only now been helped along by other groups. People are not menat to be sold into slavery and raped and murdered because of their different faiths or skin color as the Black Muslims/Christians and Animists are being slaughtered by the Arab Muslims.
The abolition movements were started by Christians in Great Britain and America.
Shobar I have asked you before, you claim thaty my media is all biased and twisted? So youre saying to me that your news and media are all true and never lie to you? |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-09-20 11:10:23 |
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| Shobar |
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| The concept of people being equal and deserving of freedom came from the Judeo-Christian God. |
Hmmm….interesting, is that your own claim or Bible claim?
Let’s see what Bible claim, shall we?
All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Timothy 6:1)
A student is not greater than the teacher. A slave is not greater than the master. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 10:24)
It seems that Bible doesn’t claim that people being equal, eh?
Ow and…please bring me one Bible verse that orders its followers to free slave, will you?
Houw bout this: Leviticus 25:44-46 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly”
I don’t see Bible claim to believe in freedom and libereting human from slavery.
Philip, your claim refuted by your own Bible.
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| You seem to think that one should put their trust in human beings, when that has been proven over and over to be foolish. Man is inherently sinful and evil. |
Wow..wow..
Man is inherently sinful and evil? Where do you get that from?
I believe Humans are innocent by birth and they become sinful only when they consciously commit a sin, you might ask Bac whether he believe his new born baby is a sinner and evil or not?
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| Look at the wars of the world? Started over the love of power and money. Look at the communist countries over history, Nothing but the death of millions upon millions came from that with "re-education" and their wars. |
You missed something there, love of oil
Why don’t you look at your country history first before pointing your finger to others
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| The reason why Christians would want others to be free, is because of what they have been taught by God, its been stitched into their fibre. |
You really must update your claim.
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| Why do you think the leading groups to cry out against Darfur have been the Evangelical Church and only now been helped along by other groups. People are not menat to be sold into slavery and raped and murdered because of their different faiths or skin color as the Black Muslims/Christians and Animists are being slaughtered by the Arab Muslims. |
Ookayyy…as typical of you, Evangelical Christian is the good guy and the Muslim…well, Arab Muslim is the bad guy.
Okay…please read the this article: Darfur Crisis.. Ask an Expert, it’s question & answer session with Dr. Hasan Mekky as Advisor of the Sudanese Foreign Minister. Dean of African Studies and Research Center since 1991. Academic political writer and analyst who has written many books on political and religious questions concerning the Sudan and the Arab and Islamic world.
I really hope (though the chance is small) it will give you more understanding about the situation in Darfur…Ow…and the session hosted by Islamonline.net so it’s better for you to read only that session and not waste your time to browsing more of Islamonline.net contains otherwise it will converted you to become a Muslim
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| Shobar I have asked you before, you claim thaty my media is all biased and twisted? So youre saying to me that your news and media are all true and never lie to you? |
Philip, have you ever thought that it is fruitless talking/debate with me?.....well I do. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-20 14:06:40 |
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| Realphilip747 |
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Of course it is fruitless t talk to you, because you consider all your sources to be true and mine to be false.
I try to be nice to my enemies, whic you are.
I love how you pull scriptures out of context, when Bac or others have put koran verses that talk about cutting off the head of Kafirs (non-believers) or killing any non-muslims if they will not convert etc etc all bloodthirsty verses in the Koran, which is probably the majority of that book.
Look at your soorce for refuting what is going on in Darfur, its from a government official. Think about it for a second, do you have a clue?
Quoting a sudanese offical about the genocide in Darfur is like asking Joseph Geobbels about whether or not the nazi's were exterminating Jews during WW2 if he says "Absolutely Not" then I guess it is true
Everyone except for the sudanese government has reported that the Arab militia's have attacked, raped, killed, enslaved Black muslims, christians and animists, but then again what is the point in trying to have dialogue with an anti-semetic, anti-christian, anti-american, anti-west individual who listens only to his own biased thoughts.
No point at all. |
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| Author |
| Posted on 2006-09-20 21:06:42 |
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| Shobar |
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| Of course it is fruitless t talk to you, because you consider all your sources to be true and mine to be false. |
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| I try to be nice to my enemies, whic you are. |
Thank you….see, I’m trying to be nice with you also
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| I love how you pull scriptures out of context, |
So…please enlighten me in which context shall we put 1 Timothy 6:1, Matthew 10:24 and Leviticus 25:44-46 are?
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| when Bac or others have put koran verses that talk about cutting off the head of Kafirs (non-believers) or killing any non-muslims if they will not convert etc etc all bloodthirsty verses in the Koran, which is probably the majority of that book. |
Look…you’d better read The Koran by yourself rather hear what your priest told you. Here I give you the link Al Qur’an
and don’t worry, you are not converted to Islam just by reading The Koran plus the link located on Wikipedia, a neutral zone I suppose.
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Look at your soorce for refuting what is going on in Darfur, its from a government official. Think about it for a second, do you have a clue?
Quoting a sudanese offical about the genocide in Darfur is like asking Joseph Geobbels about whether or not the nazi's were exterminating Jews during WW2 if he says "Absolutely Not" then I guess it is true |
Well…Let’s see what non government official said about it, shall we?
Sudan, Oil, and the Darfur Crisis by Enver Masud
Creating devastation and calling it Islam: the war for Nuba, Sudan.
Ripping Off Slave ‘Redeemers’ - By Karl Vick, Washington Post. Tuesday 26 February 2002; Page A01
The U.S. Role in Darfur, Sudan - Oil reserves rivaling those of Saudi Arabia?
by Sara Flounders
US Darfur Genocide Claim to Lure Christian Right: Envoy
No Genocide in Darfur: UN Report
Darfur Christians Spared War Pitfalls, Pray for Peace
YET MORE QUESTIONABLE JOURNALISM: THE NEW YORK TIMES AND DARFUR
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| Everyone except for the sudanese government has reported that the Arab militia's have attacked, raped, killed, enslaved Black muslims, christians and animists, but then again what is the point in trying to have dialogue with an anti-semetic, anti-christian, anti-american, anti-west individual who listens only to his own biased thoughts. |
It seems to me that you only hear what your head told you and nothing else….
Philip, I’m only anti YOU and I don’t believe that you are representing Semitic, Christian, American, West Individual as general.
Happy reading while I'm off for sleep |
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| Posted on 2006-09-20 22:24:54 |
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| Realphilip747 |
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More than half your sources are from Islamnline.com and other islamic resources, like I said consider your sources.
Would you go to the Ku Klux Klan for whether non-whites are intelligent or not?
Would you go to Nazi's for information on whether or not the holocaust happened?
I like how one of the articles said Alx de Waal is the world expert on Sudan, hahahaha, says who? Self-proclaimed more likely.
Shobar ive been to your islamonline website before why woudl I convert
only someone with weak beliefs or convictions or faith would convert to another faith or if they realize their faith is wrong.
Anyay I wouldnt want t convert to a faith which threatens death to people who convert to other faiths, like the poor guy in afghanistan who had to flee that country under protection of the Germans or the many who have died or are in jail in many middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, etc etc.
SHobar you are anti-Jewish, american,, christian, etc etc as your posts in the past have proven.
PS I will be in china and HK next month, you better watch out I just might come looking for you and make you have a beer with me. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-21 06:08:12 |
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| Shobar |
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More than half your sources are from Islamnline.com and other islamic resources, like I said consider your sources.
Would you go to the Ku Klux Klan for whether non-whites are intelligent or not?
Would you go to Nazi's for information on whether or not the holocaust happened? |
I only give you 3 links from Islamonline.net not .com and okay I'll remove links from Islamonline and from Islamic source, I hope you are happy
YET MORE QUESTIONABLE JOURNALISM: THE NEW YORK TIMES AND DARFUR
Darfur is home to some 80 tribes and ethnic groups divided between nomads and sedentary communities. The rebels seem to be drawn from within two or three communities such as the Fur and the Zaghawa tribes. The war has inevitably focused upon those areas of Darfur within which the insurgents chose to base themselves. As has been the case in countless wars, many civilians have chosen to remove themselves from these war zones. In its reporting of the war, however, 'The New York Times' has claimed that government-supported "Arab" - "Janjaweed" - militias have been involved in deliberate attacks upon "African", Fur or Zaghawa, villagers. Mark Lacey, for example, has claimed that the "Janjaweed" have been purging "villages of their darker-skinned black African inhabitants". (4) Nicholas Kristof has claimed genocide in Darfur, asserting that the "Arabs" have been targeting "blacks", citing claims that "The Arabs want to get rid of anyone with black skin...there are no blacks left." (5) In another article Kristof alleges that "black Africans have been driven from their homes by lighter-skinned Arabs in the Janjaweed". (6)
These sorts of claims are particularly inflammatory and very questionable. More honest journalists, themselves hostile to the Sudanese government, have contradicted the sorts of assertions made by Kristof and Lacey. The London 'Observer' newspaper has reported, for example, that "[c]enturies of intermarriage has rendered the two groups physically indistinguishable". (7) Even "African" Darfurian anti- government figures such as Dr Eltigani Ateem Seisi contradict the dangerously lazy shorthand of the 'New York Times'. Speaking at a recent conference in Brussels he stated with reference to "Arabs" and "Africans" in Darfur that "we all look alike" and that one "can't tell from the features if he is Arab or African". He added that he, an "African", had a darker skin than many "Arabs". (8) The discrepancy between simple factual Darfurian realities and the "reporting" and claims of people such as Kristof and Lacey exposes either poor reporting (of very sensitive issues) or reporting that has been purposefully skewed. Either is simply unacceptable.
NO GENOCIDE IN DARFUR: U.S. GOVERNMENT
U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, in a June 30 interview from Khartoum, Sudan, with National Public Radio said that there was no comparison between events in Darfur and Rwanda ten years ago. He said that on examination of the "evidence that is available" events in Darfur do not "meet the tests of the definition of genocide".
No genocide in Sudan, Annan says
NEW YORK, June 17, 2004 (dpa) -- While the killings of civilians in Sudan's western Darfur region violate international humanitarian law, they cannot be described as genocide or ethnic cleansing, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan said Thursday.
Claims of Ethnic Cleansing in Darfur are "Fabrications"
The President said accusing Sudan of slavery was an insult not only to the government but also to all the Sudanese people and the homeland. He reviewed the root causes of the war in Darfur, explaining that Jangweed are outlaw groups that practice armed robbery. The President added that Darfur rebels stopped development in the area by abducting workers engaged in humanitarian relief and digging of water wells. Meanwhile, President Al-Bashir has affirmed the government's commitment to deter the outlaws in Darfur, saying that the final solution of the issue of Darfur is linked with disarming the rebels and armed militias. This came while President Al-Bashir addressed the women leaderships yesterday at a meeting organized by the committee for celebrating the 15th anniversary of the National Salvation Revolution, in collaboration with the Sudanese Women's Union.
Creating devastation and calling it Islam: the war for Nuba, Sudan.
The war in Sudan is conventionally mis-described in terms of the rebel Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) "fighting for more autonomy for the mainly Christian and animist South." This is wrong on several counts. First, the SPLA is fighting for a "new Sudan" in the whole country, and includes significant groups of non-Southerners among its forces. The Nuba people of southern Kordofan are prominent among these. Second, there are Muslims serving in the SPLA, including the late Yousif Kuwa Mekki, the charismatic Nuba leader who died in March 2001, and his successor, Abdel Aziz Adam al Hilu. Third, there are no animists in Sudan: followers of traditional religions are mostly theists--"noble spiritual believers" in the apt and sensitive terminology of the now-replaced 1973 Constitution. An even more egregiously wrong characterization of the conflict is "Christian rebels" against a "Muslim government." The war in Sudan is fundamentally about greed and identity. And religion has become an integral part of the contested identities of Sudanese, nowhere more so than in the Nuba Mountains.
The U.S. Role in Darfur, Sudan
Unlike Saudi Arabia, however, the Sudanese government has retained its independence of Washington. Unable to control Sudan’s oil policy, the U.S. imperialist government has made every effort to stop its development of this valuable resource. China, on the other hand, has worked with Sudan in providing the technology for exploration, drilling, pumping and the building of a pipeline and buys much of Sudan’s oil.
Ripping Off Slave ‘Redeemers’
The highly publicized practice of buying the freedom of Sudanese slaves, fueled by millions of dollars donated by Westerners, is rife with corruption, according to aid workers, human rights monitors and leaders of a rebel movement whose members routinely regard slave redemption as a lucrative business.
Aid agencies and Western media have "misrepresented" the Darfur crisis: OIC
UNITED NATIONS, June 30, 2004 (KUNA) -- A delegation from the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) that visited Darfur, Sudan, earlier this month said that it is "totally convinced" that the international agencies and Western media have "misrepresented" the Darfur crisis and that Khartoum did its utmost to contain it.
"The problem is by no means more than a tribal conflict over basic resources, namely water and pasture," the OIC three-man delegation that visited Darfur from 5-8 June said in a report, a copy of which was sent to the UN Secretariat late Tuesday.
DARFUR IN PERSPECTIVE
It is essential for anyone intent on bringing the Darfur conflict to an end to examine closely the causes of the violence that has convulsed the region. The insurgents claim to be acting because of Darfur’s marginalisation and underdevelopment. That Darfur is underdeveloped is self-evident. It is no more underdeveloped, however, than several other parts of Sudan. It is also clear that this historic underdevelopment – however it is measured – does not adequately explain the intercommunal violence in past decades. It is difficult to accept that underdevelopment and marginalisation accounts for the level of focused and orchestrated violence aimed at the Government of Sudan since early 2003, and clearly planned for some considerable time beforehand.
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| I like how one of the articles said Alx de Waal is the world expert on Sudan, hahahaha, says who? Self-proclaimed more likely. |
Why don't you do a bit research before said something silly (again!) like this?
This is the man who claimed by you know nothing about Sudan Alexander De Waal
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Shobar ive been to your islamonline website before why woudl I convert
only someone with weak beliefs or convictions or faith would convert to another faith or if they realize their faith is wrong. |
Good for you.
Please go to section Ask about Islam, there are lots of articles that will clear all your misconception about my faith.
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| Anyay I wouldnt want t convert to a faith which threatens death to people who convert to other faiths, like the poor guy in afghanistan who had to flee that country under protection of the Germans or the many who have died or are in jail in many middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, etc etc. |
stop being so preachy, will you?
Anyway, my faith never threatened people who sincerely convert to other faiths, you might read this article No compulsion in religion to enlighten you…Oow and btw I'm sure that poor Afghan man now live happilly, eat well in Europe rather then to live in mud, poor country like Afghan
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| SHobar you are anti-Jewish, american,, christian, etc etc as your posts in the past have proven. |
more invalid claim from you
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| PS I will be in china and HK next month, you better watch out I just might come looking for you and make you have a beer with me. |
Hey, I'm Muslim, I don't drink alcohol plus must avoid hang out with people who drink it! but thank you for inviting me anyway |
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| Posted on 2006-09-21 10:24:29 |
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Philip
Yeah right, the God of organised religions that have spent centuries oppressing the masses is now the little voice in the head of the leading lights of the Englightenment.
But perhaps you're right and humans are inherently willfully ignorant (which is a sin) and that's why they prefer to follow neat religion instead of following complex reason.
If even a loving Christian like you claims to have enemies (and you're merely "nice" to them), then there's something wrong. Go, go and fight, if that makes you happy, but ultimately it won't. |
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| Posted on 2006-09-21 17:24:05 |
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| Realphilip747 |
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Hey Karl
God has never oppressed anyone, it is so-called leaders who have used religion at times to oppress people, but the message of the Bible sets people free.
Hey im sure you would agree that me being a Christian and being nice to my enemies (which is short of loving them as the Bible dictates us to do, but hey Im not an ideal Christian) is a lot better than other faiths that seem to want to wipe out non-believers. It doesnt mean that if my enemies atatck me I dont fight back.
Christianity has been on the forefront of rights, like I said in relation to the anti-slavery movement in America and UK it was christians that lead the fight against it. The genocide happening in Sudan, it was evangelicas that lead the outcry and lobbied President Bush to make it a priority.
Jesus instructed his followers to care for the widows and the orphans, and the poor and the oppressed.
And if it werent for the Crusades stopping the Ottomans from conquering the rest of Europe (after they have conquered the Middle East, Africa and huge chunks of Europe) we would be speaking Arabic, or even worse than that maybe not even alive.
Women would have no rights
Gays would be killed
Other religions wouldnt be allowed unless you paid a huge tax
No questioning of the Koran
Women and Men would be segregated almost all the time
Arranged marriages
Child Brides
No TV
No radio
No music
No sports
Most if not all images wouldnt be allowed
No more fashion, except for black, black, and more black
We would have to grow long beards
We would have to gather up more phlemn in our throats to speak arabic
And most of all No Cardigans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a nice day |
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| Posted on 2006-09-21 18:47:48 |
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Hey Karl
God has never oppressed anyone, it is so-called leaders who have used religion at times to oppress people, but the message of the Bible sets people free.
Hey im sure you would agree that me being a Christian and being nice to my enemies (which is short of loving them as the Bible dictates us to do, but hey Im not an ideal Christian) is a lot better than other faiths that seem to want to wipe out non-believers. It doesnt mean that if my enemies atatck me I dont fight back.
Christianity has been on the forefront of rights, like I said in relation to the anti-slavery movement in America and UK it was christians that lead the fight against it. The genocide happening in Sudan, it was evangelicas that lead the outcry and lobbied President Bush to make it a priority.
Jesus instructed his followers to care for the widows and the orphans, and the poor and the oppressed.
And if it werent for the Crusades stopping the Ottomans from conquering the rest of Europe (after they have conquered the Middle East, Africa and huge chunks of Europe) we would be speaking Arabic, or even worse than that maybe not even alive.
Women would have no rights
Gays would be killed
Other religions wouldnt be allowed unless you paid a huge tax
No questioning of the Koran
Women and Men would be segregated almost all the time
Arranged marriages
Child Brides
No TV
No radio
No music
No sports
Most if not all images wouldnt be allowed
No more fashion, except for black, black, and more black
We would have to grow long beards
We would have to gather up more phlemn in our throats to speak arabic
And most of all No Cardigans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a nice day |
part bigot, part fantasy land, part hypocrite. Good job on this post, i give it B+ |
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