| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-10 11:24:38 |
|
|
| laaran |
 |
 |
|
First I don't like to write just after the death of people.
But our newspapers do it.
I don't support what Russia is doing in Chetchnia.
But what are we looking for ?
Some excuse for what we are doing in Africa, or what we did in America ?
I could add "some muslim countries", but I do not.
Why ? Because of Algeria. Muslim population could grow a lot during the French colonization. So I don't think this colonization was that bad.
I don't say it was that great, but not that bad. After the colonization, Algerians have spread like rabbits, and they will probably pay an expensive price for this attitude. More expensive than the french colonization itself.
Yes, we destroyed things, pretty things, in Algeria. But the winners of the independence wars were not those who suffered the most during the colonization, they are not better than the French army.
So I don't search for excuses. As long as we can not frankly speak about it, I don't search for excuses.
And Danmark, Russia and Yougoslavia have been giving/selling weapons to the Algerian army, and I don't think it was a great idea.
Why didn't they go to the United Nations ?
There are probably other countries, in the list, but their population didn't have a white skin. Selling weapons to one side, that just made the war worst.
So now Chetchnia.
I will not give them weapons. It is a very bad idea.
Do we know what they need ?
It is a retarded world, true. Why should we use another word ?
There are probably good things from this less-advanced society. But I don't know what.
The language ? Maybe. Yet the Russians since 100 years never really fought to destroy other languages (maybe because they did it in some parts of Russia 300 years ago or before, I don't really know, and because they learned from their own past).
So what else is good in Chetchnia ? I don't know.
As long as we don't respect that, we can not say that we respect them.
Yes, we can ask to Russian army to stop its war there.
We can.
But who wants a second Algeria ? Who will rule Chetchnia if the Russians leave ? So, yes, they have to leave, but then the other side must give back the weapons too.
Many things have been destroyed in Chetchnia. If Russians leave now, simply leave, that will be a second Algeria.
Writing a book about the attitude of Russian army or allied is important ? Yes. Writing a book about the strength of Chetchnia society, is more difficult.
With our culture, we can write a book about the horrors that an army makes. It is more difficult to find the positive points of a foreign culture.
Last point.
This is not a thread about the personnality of Anna Politkovskaia. I have no comment to write about that.
I don't feel "normal" that our feelings for her, and for her life, are changed into political opinions by other journalists (who are rich and warm in the security of our western cities). |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-10 13:12:46 |
|
|
|
|
|
The language ? Maybe. Yet the Russians since 100 years never really fought to destroy other languages (maybe because they did it in some parts of Russia 300 years ago or before, I don't really know, and because they learned from their own past).
|
Don't say soo sure about Russian language politics if you have never gaced it. As 300 years ago Russians were killing (can't find another suitable word) Ukrainian language in particular -now is the same and even worse. Russian politics press on the Russia-oriented politics like communists and parties from eastern regoins to proclaim Russian language as second national in Ukraine. They want to rule us. They want to get our land in the hands again. With killing our language they kill Ukraininas as a nationality, they offence our heroes who fought for Ukrainian language, Ukrainian independent state and Ukrainian people.
I don't know what Russians learned from their past but now everyone from former USSR has such language problem in their states. Russian politics just can't understand that all of us have their own way without elder sister Russia. The same abotu Chechnya. Once Russians have started the war there and the generation of people who grew up in the conditions of war wants revenge now. These people can be understood because none of us know how it's hard to loose all your relatives, your country, your city just for somebody's ambition. I am not trying to defence Chenchnya because after blowing up the houses in Moscow and terroristic act against innocent little children in Beslan there are no more words left to say. ;(((((
About Anna Politkovskaya, Russia has great problems with free press and is afraid of truth, I mean politics.
As one journalist in Russia said : the death of Anna was a gift to Putin or to Shamil Basaev because nobody wants to hear the truth about Russian president or by mess in prisons in Chechnya.
Rest in peace Anna! |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-10 14:18:19 |
|
|
|
|
this murder is really shocking. people have been protesting outside the russian federations embassy and everyoneīs really worried what this might mean to human rights in russia. this morning when I opened my newspaper there was a whole page pic of barbed-wire talk-bubble in the memory of anna politkovskaja.. letīs see what Putin says in Lahti... |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-10 17:31:00 |
|
|
| laaran |
|
|
|
With killing our language they kill Ukraininas as a nationality, they offence our heroes who fought for Ukrainian language, Ukrainian independent state and Ukrainian people
Hum. Most your heroes fought during world war II.
They fought like heroic soldiers, on both sides, and I will not say that they fought for Ukraine independence. The choice was not wide during world war II. Some tried to support Germany, but it became quickly obvious that USSR was a better choice. The choice was USSR or Germany, not USSR or Ukraine, not Ukraine or Germany.
Some tried to fought for an independent Ukraine, but on the battle field, they had to be allied of Germans or of USSRians, and during the two latest years, they were not allied of Germans.
The eastern population of Ukraine is speaking Russian, and this is since a long time ago, before 1917. These people want to speak their language...
Between Russia and Ukraine, one problem is Ukraine independence, true. But I don't think that the source of the problem is the language.
the death of Anna was a gift to Putin or to Shamil Basaev
I don't think this is a big gift.
For Putin, this is rather annoying. Yes, she was publishing books, and ?
She complained that Russian troops considered Chechnyans as animals.
True.
And ?
I am sorry, we don't show much more respect for Chechnya. Who between us care for their habit or culture ? We all consider that they are retarded people, and that we must protect them from the danger of our civilization.
this murder is really shocking
More than other murders ?
We know her name because she has been murdered.
Without the murder, who among us would read her book ? Who read one of her book before ? |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-10 20:13:23 |
|
|
|
|
You are not acqutainted with Ukrainian history as U see, so there is no need for me to proove something about heroes and stuff to you. The language of eastern regions in Ukrainian as in western one, bur true that many ethnic Russians live there and now they are demanding somehtong from Ukrainian goverment, but they are just ethnic group but not native population of Ukraine. We can suggest them only free development of their language as for other ethnic groups like Moldavians,German etc but not second state language.
Anna Politkovsakya was very important and famous journalist in countries of former USSr.Maybe you din't heard of her because you are in your safe and quite peaceful western Europe. An by the way she has Ukrainian roots. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-10 21:16:29 |
|
|
|
|
she was very well known here. I havenīt read any of her books but she was a bit of a celebrity in certain circles. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-10 22:42:31 |
|
|
| laaran |
|
|
|
You are not acqutainted with Ukrainian history as U see, so there is no need for me to proove something about heroes and stuff to you
There is no need to prove.
Here this is a forum, for discussion. If you don't tell, how can I learn ?
Ok, you think I am lazy, then don't tell, but give titles of books about your history.
but they are just ethnic group but not native population of Ukraine.
Source please ?
Maybe you din't heard of her because you are in your safe and quite peaceful western Europe.
Yes, she was mostly unkown here. Suddenly Chirac and Bush know her name very well, and all our newspapers too.
I am sure she would spit on their condolences if she were alive (and on those of Putin, but Putin at least kept silent during some days).
I havenīt read any of her books but she was a bit of a celebrity in certain circles.
What does mean "in certain circles" ?
She writes book, and nobody (or very few people) reads them ?! Sad.
Do you know that when you buy her book, you also support her (a bit). Ok, for her it is too late. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-11 15:57:04 |
|
|
|
|
I could give you titles of books which I have read about Ukrainian history and other stuff and on with I rely on, but htey are all on Ukrainian. I'll try to find something on English or French. My brother worked in France so I suppose that he has something left or at least know where to get. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-11 16:44:20 |
|
|
| laaran |
|
|
|
You can just write the names of the authors (in Cyrillic, or better in Latin alphabet). Then I can search for their work myself.
Of course, if you mother remembers, that is better ! |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-12 00:03:25 |
|
|
|
|
in the wannabe intellectual artsy weīre-so-cool-īcause-we-talk-about-this-shit-circles that I hang out in, of course =)
I think she was worth supporting, and I would really want to say that Iīve bought and read her books years ago, but Iīm not that cool... |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-12 00:06:59 |
|
|
| laaran |
|
|
|
Hum.
Finnish to English to French gives a difficult result.
You mean that you know some people who talked about her ? And what were they saying ? Rather political comments about the war there, or rather some comments about her, her personnality ? |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-12 00:15:29 |
|
|
|
|
seriously? you didnīs know who anna politkovskaja was before she died? I know that russian people didnīt all know who she was, but still I thought she was well known elsewhere.
a couple of years ago there was a story about her in Suomen Kuvalehti and in Helsingin Sanomat, and thatīs how I got to know her name. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-12 00:24:41 |
|
|
| laaran |
|
|
|
you didnīs know who anna politkovskaja was before she died?
No. You see, Russia is not that close.
And Chechnya ? Let's say that we don't care that much. Neither the "old" French people, nor the more recent immigrants really care.
Russian people probably knew her better than we did, here in France. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-12 00:26:17 |
|
|
| laaran |
|
|
|
Ah yes, I know that Chirac cares a lot. He cares a lot for so many things.
Either his brain is really large, or he is just a (sad) clown. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-12 00:29:24 |
|
|
|
|
|
you didnīs know who anna politkovskaja was before she died?
No. You see, Russia is not that close.
And Chechnya ? Let's say that we don't care that much. Neither the "old" French people, nor the more recent immigrants really care.
Russian people probably knew her better than we did, here in France. |
ok  |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-13 15:21:39 |
|
|
|
|
|
Ah yes, I know that Chirac cares a lot. He cares a lot for so many things.
Either his brain is really large, or he is just a (sad) clown. |
;)
I suppose all presidents are clowns, no matter what brain-soze they have. They are all soo nice and caring, that it annoys much.;) |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-17 20:20:03 |
|
|
| pavlon |
|
 |
|
You say that ".....we can ask Russian army to stop its war there"
f**k you,
you don't know anything about situation in Chechnya at all !!!!
If you have question's about it, ask me,
I live in Russia adn know much abuot it!!!! |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-17 20:31:02 |
|
|
| laaran |
|
|
|
Hum.
I don't really understand.
You don't think it is a war ?
You don't think that your army/government have two main roles in this war ? I know, another group is fighting against you, but this is just one group. Everybody knows that the Russian government does not control exactly what the Russian generals decide there. That means you have two groups, your government, and your army, against one group. So it is mainly the war of Russia.
And we should not ask something from Russia ? Then what ? Send weapons to one of the groups, like your country did so well in Algeria. And please, don't tell "this was USSR", because I know what your history books, the current ones, say about the French-Algerian war. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-18 08:44:11 |
|
|
| pavlon |
|
|
|
Chechnya is a part of Russia, where bandits and terrorists make business, how can any countries send weapon to Chechnya?It's war in one country.
Why don't you ask America not to bombing Belgrad?
About Algeria, what French missed in Algeria??? |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-18 08:52:35 |
|
|
| pavlon |
|
|
|
what group fight against Russia?
who they are you think? |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-18 14:58:24 |
|
|
| laaran |
|
|
|
I am sorry, you are polite, but I don't care to speak about that with you.
I just care for my own freedom now. Why ? Read the thread '"Iraq and chirac again". You see, my nationality is French, and I can just notice that my government does not protect its own citizens. As long as Chirac is president, I don't care about wars or hunger.
If I want to ask you to stop a war, I will ask it. And you may like it or not like it, I will ask.
But I don't ask that now.
My first post is about the attitude of Bush and Chirac, and some European journalists. If you want to speak about their attitude, we can speak. Else, I am not interested. |
|
|
|
| Author |
| Posted on 2006-10-18 21:06:09 |
|
|
| pavlon |
|
|
|
wow, иди играйся:) |
|
|
|